In fact, read shallowly, does Fiona's letter contribute to the fuzzy thinking in which no sexual standards are appropriate for any community because, hey, sex is love and love is good? Where exactly did you find it? Many Christians, especially those at the conservative end of the theological spectrum, automatically equate sex and love, or such has been my experience, bless their hearts.
If you want a prooftext, a form of the word "sex" was in Fiona's letter. More generally, do you think the references to "falling in love" which Fiona seemed to conflate with love were nonsexual? Are you trying to tell me that Fiona, and the gay-straight alliance Brian is trying to start, are talking about purely Platonic relationships? Do you really think Fiona is saying that we shouldn't look down on guys who love other guys non-sexually, or girls who love other girls non-sexually? Nobody could disagree with that!! Are you pretending to be naive, or do you really think that the whole conversation isn't about how we agree or disagree about "approved" and "non-approved" sexual attraction and sexual intimacy?
Bless your heart, but I don't hear anybody but conservative Christians suggesting that we can love people while exercising strict sexual self-control. Isn't this the precise position, right or wrong, that conservatives take toward homosexuality, premarital sex, and general marital fidelity?
It is liberals, and only liberals, who argue that the fact that I love someone is in itself a proof that I should be able to have sex with that person. Conservatives, stupid as their blessed hearts may be, have never made that particular stupid mistake. Do you really think otherwise? I'm curious. It's interesting how you jumped right to sex, when there are so many other facets to relationships.
Regardless, you seem to be arguing against gay sex isn't it interesting how much non-gay people think about gay sex? I'd like to address that with two flavors of argument. Secular: If there is informed, uncoerced consent on all sides, where's the harm? Children and animals cannot give informed consent.
What is "Righteous Anger"? | Christian Bible Studies
Birth control can prevent defects from certain unions. If all sides union are freely and intelligently consenting to an act, who suffers? This is a secular argument, so souls and sins have no impact here Christian: Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.
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First remove the plank from your eye before addressing the splinter in someone else's. All sins are equal under the Lord. Allowing gay people to freely love, marry, and yes, have sex causes no harm and creates a lot of good. Interesting that you assumed I was arguing against gay sex. I challenge you to find one statement that said anything of the sort. I was arguing that the use of the word "love" to authorize all relationships of all kinds is meaningless--especially when those relationships are based on sexual attraction "falling in love" rather than selfless service. Heterosexual people try it all the time.
It's still meaningless. Now that you've brought it up, I have plenty of sin. Maybe that's why I'm not casting any stones. I'm working on the plank in my own eye, and it drives me crazy when someone else, in an attempt to justify the splinter in his eye, makes some kind of stupid meaningless statement like, "Wood in eyes is always a good thing. Love is wonderful. Serving the poor is wonderful. Sex is sometimes wonderful, sometimes not.
I have no real interest in gay sex. I am interested in debunking both of the two arguments you use in favor of gay sex--one, that informed uncoerced sex is always good, and two, that because all sins are equal therefore all sex is righteous. By the way, your first argument kind of makes sense if you're a nonChristian. The second just leaves me scratching my head. I suppose if this were a question about who were the worse sinner, a homosexual or me, your "argument" would be valid but I already kind of assume that I'm a far worse sinner than any homosexual.
If, however, the argument is that Fiona was right, how do you get from "all sin is equal" to "all sexual attraction is good"? It's a bit of a non sequitur, don't you think? By the way, you comment on how non-gay people "assume" things. I find it interesting, and troubling, that when I argue that not all sex or sexual attraction, or falling in love is particularly good, you immediately assume I'm critiquing homosexuality.
I have a sense that her sentiment is right, even if her specific example isn't, necessarily. What is diminished by gay love? Perhaps nothing, perhaps a lot; I simply am not interested in exploring the question. As I said, perhaps homosexual relationships are biblical and wonderful.
If you are interested in exploring this question, find someone else who wants to explore it with you--but I hope you explore it with a fair mind. I have nothing to say about it.
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All I am saying is that the word "love" is simply being used dishonestly here, as though in forbidding my year-old daughter from dating a year-old man on parole I am forbidding her to "love" prisoners, as though in discouraging a married man from having a mistress I am discouraging him to "love" women, as though people called to singleness are thereby called to "love" less. Homosexuality and heterosexuality have little to do with my point--except that I find, rather curiously, that many people and I am afraid Richard and you are among them are willing to be dishonest and silly about using the word "love" whenever you want to support homosexuality.
Again, I have no desire to discuss homosexuality.
We come into conflict with our culture when we are asked to conform to cultural measures of righteousness and refuse to because that would be idolatry. It is easy to read the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the abstract and say what a wonderful example they provide for how to live as a Christian. I preached on all this a couple of weeks back. Righteous Pride 0. What should you do if your employer asks you to wear the Pride flag while at work? What should we make of so many businesses adjusting their logos to the Pride colours?
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The Righteousness of God
Write a review Rate this item: 1 2 3 4 5. Preview this item Preview this item. Series: New studies in biblical theology , 45; New studies in biblical theology InterVarsity Press , This lack is even more surprising given that circumcision forms the background for some of the most hotly contested writings of the apostle Paul. The situation is complicated by the fact that the biblical material on circumcision seems to present often quite different and even apparently contradictory pictures of what circumcision means.
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Two of the key biblical concepts which are closely linked to circumcision in the debates carried on in Paul's letters and the early church are righteousness and faith. They are held together by the unfolding promise of a blameless "seed of Abraham", Jesus Christ, through whose sacrifice the promised righteousness will finally come--a righteousness which will be enjoyed by those whose hearts are circumcised, who trust in God's promise.
Addressing key issues in biblical theology, the works comprising New Studies in Biblical Theology are creative attempts to help Christians better understand their Bibles. Carson, aiming to simultaneously instruct and to edify, to interact with current scholarship and to point the way ahead. Read more Allow this favorite library to be seen by others Keep this favorite library private. Find a copy in the library Finding libraries that hold this item Given the foundational importance of circumcision in the Old Testament and its prevalence in numerous debates in the New Testament, it is surprising that so little detailed work has been done on establishing a biblical theology of circumcision.
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